Transcript: February 12th, 2011—Steampunk and Religion

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1:42 am deoris1: RT @mattdelman: OK, so tonight’s #steampunkchat is going to be about Steampunk and Religion: with special guest @DruPagliassotti, author of CLOCKWORK HEART
1:44 am mattdelman: 15 minutes to #steampunkchat!
1:45 am tribal_gothic: RT @nancyoverbury: RT @mattdelman: Tonights #steampunkchat is about Steampunk & Religion: with special guest @DruPagliassotti (CLOCKWORK HEART) #steampunkchat
1:55 am DruPagliassotti: Hi, everyone! #steampunkchat
1:58 am MadeleineRosca: Hello all, Madeleine Rosca returning to steampunkchat… #steampunkchat
1:59 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti Hiya! #steampunkchat
1:59 am tribal_gothic: Greetings – I guess the chat is now in progress. I usually try to be Fashionably Late 😉 #steampunkchat
1:59 am jhameia: @MadeleineRosca Welcome back! #steampunkchat
1:59 am AirshipEmbassy: Hi Dru, how are you this week? #steampunkchat
1:59 am AirshipEmbassy: Hi Madeleine, welcome back! #steampunkchat
1:59 am mattdelman: All right folks, so let’s start off tonight’s #steampunkchat with special guest @DruPagliassotti, author of CLOCKWORK HEART!
2:00 am DruPagliassotti: So, where do we want to begin re: religion and steampunk? #steampunkchat
2:00 am alex_lancaster: RT @MadeleineRosca: Hello all, Madeleine Rosca returning to steampunkchat… #steampunkchat
2:01 am DavidRozansky: Checking in to #steampunkchat. David Rozansky, publisher, Flying Pen Press, featuring #Steampunk & Co.
2:01 am tribal_gothic: Since “SteamPunk” has the “Punk” element – I see it as a method against oppression (including oppressive Religion) #steampunkchat
2:02 am mattdelman: How can Steampunk deal with religious topics/storylines within the context of the aesthetic? #steampunkchat
2:03 am mizhalle: Hello everyone! #steampunkchat
2:03 am Mantecoza: Checking in on the #steampunkchat – Greetings from Mantecoza! Have never tried to chat using Twitter before so this should be a good lesson
2:03 am LivingAnRPGLife: #steampunkchat… that’s all…
2:03 am mattdelman: Bear this in mind too though — not all religion is oppressive or “bad.” Some can be quite beneficial. #steampunkchat
2:03 am DavidRozansky: @mattdelman You know, the Steampunk era is about when Reform Judaism was founded. #steampunkchat
2:03 am jhameia: RT @mattdelman: How can Steampunk deal with religious topics/storylines within the context of the aesthetic? #steampunkchat
2:04 am mattdelman: .@DavidRozansky Interesting. I didn’t realize Reform Judaism was that young. #steampunkchat
2:04 am AirshipEmbassy: If you are new to chat, this can be helpful – the hashtag is automatically added – http://tweetchat.com/room/steampunkchat #steampunkchat
2:04 am tribal_gothic: A method against oppressive Society which can be an extension of an Oppressive Religious Social mindset #steampunkchat
2:04 am jhameia: @mattdelman I think that’s very important; just because steampunk focuses so much on tech doesn’t mean it’s anti-religion. #steampunkchat
2:04 am DruPagliassotti: Yet in Victorian England we read about “Christian” charity as opposing poverty, child prostitution, etc.; a good thing. #steampunkchat
2:04 am mattdelman: So, @DruPagliassotti, perhaps you’d like to start with how you dealt with Religious topics inside Clockwork Heart? #steampunkchat
2:04 am AirshipEmbassy: How have steampunk stories so far used religion ? #steampunkchat
2:05 am jhameia: I enjoyed, for example, the imagery in CLOCKWORK HEART that incorporated tech into a life philosophy. #steampunkchat
2:05 am LivingAnRPGLife: Hello all #steampunkchat
2:05 am DavidRozansky: @mattdelman When shtetl/ghetto lifestyle dissolved in US, Reform Judaism meant to bring young jJews back into the flock. #steampunkchat
2:05 am DruPagliassotti: In CH, the central religion worships The Lady of the Forge, a deity who forges people/castes and is a patron to inventors. #steampunkchat
2:05 am mattdelman: @jhameia “Religion without science is blind; science without religion is lame.” — Albert Einstein #steampunkchat
2:06 am MadeleineRosca: The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Whitechapel Gods. #steampunkchat
2:07 am suzannelazear: Hey steampunkers– #steampunkchat is going on now
2:07 am DavidRozansky: I don’t think there’s any special method to view religion in steampunk. Now, cults w/i religious orders, so very steampunky #steampunkchat
2:07 am mattdelman: @DruPagliassotti Is there a real-world basis for The Lady? If so, how did you blend it into a convincing fantasy society? #steampunkchat
2:07 am DruPagliassotti: The Victorians loved self-help books because for the first time class was becoming fluid; one invents both oneself & machines #steampunkchat
2:07 am LivingAnRPGLife: Religion is relying on someone else’s experiences: spirituality is relying on your own. #steampunkchat
2:08 am fourchickens: Also, religion can mean something that’s not Christian-based. #steampunkchat
2:08 am jhameia: @DavidRozansky James Blaylock’s HOMUNCULUS had a cult in it. I think it’s too easy, tho, to set cults up as the bogey. #steampunkchat
2:08 am tribal_gothic: @fourchickens I certainly hope so! #steampunkchat
2:08 am mizhalle: Yup, exactly RT @fourchickens: Also, religion can mean something that’s not Christian-based. #steampunkchat
2:08 am DruPagliassotti: I was combining elements of Hindu beliefs in reincarnation with an archetypical mother-goddess in an industrial setting. #steampunkchat
2:08 am jhameia: @LivingAnRPGLife I see religion more as a social organizing force, whilst spirituality being more personal. #steampunkchat
2:09 am mattdelman: RT @fourchickens: Also, religion can mean something thats not Christian-based. #steampunkchat
2:09 am mizhalle: RT @DruPagliassotti: The Victorians loved self-help books because for the first time class was becoming fluid; one invents both oneself & machines #steampunkchat
2:09 am AirshipEmbassy: @DruPagliassotti what were the factors you had to consider in combing those ideas to create The Lady? #steampunkchat
2:09 am suzannelazear: being home sick means I can duck into #steampunkchat for a bit, hello everyone!
2:10 am mattdelman: @suzannelazear Hello Suzi! #steampunkchat
2:10 am LivingAnRPGLife: @jhameia I understand that about religion, but that’s also true about politics and philosophies #steampunkchat
2:11 am DruPagliassotti: @AirshipEmbassy I wanted a non-Christian industrial society with a religion that supported its bureaucratic caste system…. #steampunkchat
2:11 am mattdelman: Hey everyone, come on over to #steampunkchat going on right now! We’ve got @DruPagliassotti as our special guest!
2:11 am GundamCat13: RT @mattdelman: Hey everyone, come on over to #steampunkchat going on right now! We’ve got @DruPagliassotti as our special guest!
2:12 am DruPagliassotti: …while not feeling too “new.” Also, I wanted to divorce tech from masculinity; woman-as-creator is an eternal concept. #steampunkchat
2:12 am fourchickens: I have to admit, I love stories that incorporate Golems. One of Gail Carriger’s novels has a golem #steampunkchat
2:12 am AndrewMayer: #steampunkchat Hey folks! Checking back in after returning to the USA from New Zealand, where Steampunk is a way of life…
2:12 am LadonnaWatkins: Hi everyone. I’ve missed a few chats. #steampunkchat.
2:13 am mattdelman: @AndrewMayer Hello Andrew! Welcome back. #steampunkchat
2:13 am DruPagliassotti: @AndrewMayer Yay, Oamaru! I’ve been meaning to blog about it for a while now! #steampunkchat
2:13 am deoris1: Happy to back this week. #steampunkchat #writing
2:13 am MadeleineRosca: @fourchickens Yes, few people remember that golems have a strong religious element. #steampunkchat
2:13 am suzannelazear: @fourchickens golems are pretty awesome #steampunkchat
2:13 am mattdelman: @DruPagliassotti Is it more common to have woman as creator or man as creator do you think? #steampunkchat
2:14 am deoris1: RT @mattdelman: Hey everyone, come on over to #steampunkchat going on right now! We’ve got @DruPagliassotti as our special guest! #writing
2:14 am writersyndrome: Stopping in for once. Hello folks! #steampunkchat
2:14 am suzannelazear: @LadonnaWatkins ~waves~ #steampunkchat
2:14 am mattdelman: Hello @writersyndrome! Thanks for popping in. #steampunkchat
2:14 am AndrewMayer: @DruPagliassotti I’ve got some pictures from my visit to Oamaru up on my book page on Facebook. Definitely worth the trip! #steampunkchat
2:14 am MadeleineRosca: @writersyndrome Hello there! #steampunkchat
2:14 am AirshipEmbassy: @DruPagliassotti how is the bureaucratic caste system set up and maintained, and how did the religion reinforce it? #steampunkchat
2:14 am jhameia: @LivingAnRPGLife Indeed! Which doesn’t make it any less important. #steampunkchat
2:15 am DruPagliassotti: I’ve been working on a SP story for a while that would call on the Japanese concept of tsukumogami; artifact spirits. #steampunkchat
2:15 am DruPagliassotti: @AirshipEmbassy Everyone is born to a caste but can take a Great Exam to test into another; “forging” themselves anew. #steampunkchat
2:16 am LadonnaWatkins: @suzannelazear Waving back. #steampunkchat
2:16 am writersyndrome: Ted Chiang’s story “Seventy-Two letters” uses a kabbalah- magic-tech system; it’s the most clever use of religion in sp #steampunkchat
2:16 am tribal_gothic: RT @writersyndrome: Ted Chiang’s story “Seventy-Two letters” uses a kabbalah- magic-tech system; it’s the most clever use of religion in sp #steampunkchat
2:16 am MadeleineRosca: @DruPagliassotti So castes in your world aren’t necessarily permanent? Does one ever get ‘demoted’? #steampunkchat
2:16 am DruPagliassotti: @AndrewMayer Awesome; bookmarking it for later perusal! #steampunkchat
2:16 am LadonnaWatkins: Very interesting topic. I’m eager to see what people think about this. #steampunkchat
2:16 am tribal_gothic: @writersyndrome Now, that sounds interesting! #steampunkchat
2:16 am AirshipEmbassy: @DruPagliassotti I like that, fate and free will working together, which are classic themes in themselves #steampunkchat
2:17 am LivingAnRPGLife: @mattdelman Do you mean only in Steampunk? Define “creator”? #steampunkchat
2:18 am DruPagliassotti: @MadeleineRosca The castes are permeable, except the rulers (!), but the m protag in CH is a voluntary “outcaste” #steampunkchat
2:18 am regenklang: @writersyndrome what about China Mieville’s golems in The Iron Council, though? same ideo-linguistic base #steampunkchat
2:18 am Peygann: Hi everyone. #steampunkchat
2:19 am AndrewMayer: One thing I think that’s hard to grasp is how deeply religion was woven into most societies until the modern era. #steampunkchat
2:19 am mattdelman: @LivingAnRPGLife It was a more general ethnographic question to be honest. #steampunkchat
2:19 am DruPagliassotti: @mattdelman IMO classic steampunk was often male-oriented due to the tech; SP romance was “female” SP; but that’s changing #steampunkchat
2:20 am sjdbrandon: Hello #steampunkchat! Tea anyone?
2:20 am LadonnaWatkins: Is there supposed to be an element of religion in SP? Or can you make it subtle without it sticking out like a sore thumb? #steampunkchat
2:20 am DruPagliassotti: @AndrewMayer I agree, which is why I think it’s important to take into consideration, whether one’s pro or con religion #steampunkchat
2:20 am mattdelman: @AndrewMayer Good point. In earlier times, the Church/Mosque/Synagogue *was* your life. #steampunkchat
2:20 am Shannon_Shea: @DruPagliassotti Have you found it a challenging endeavor to incorporate the tsukumogami into SP? #steampunkchat
2:20 am jhameia: @AndrewMayer Indeed. Even so-called secular principles had seeds in Protestantism, in the West. #steampunkchat
2:20 am writersyndrome: @regenklang Indeed, that’s true. But I like Chiang’s blurring of the line where religion & science intersect #steampunkchat
2:21 am DruPagliassotti: @LadonnaWatkins I’d say it’s voluntary, except religion forms a framework for our thought even if we’re anti-religious. #steampunkchat
2:21 am tribal_gothic: I would like to see a Steampunk story with elements of John Dee and Edward Kelley – as SP is almost Alchemy anyway… #steampunkchat
2:21 am AndrewMayer: And their beliefs were as real and as powerful as any magic we put into our fiction. #steampunkchat
2:21 am jhameia: @mattdelman @AndrewMayer And today, folk religions still persist. I still bow to altars outside shops and houses. #steampunkchat
2:22 am fourchickens: Miyazaki’s films all combine religion and steampunk technogy. #steampunkchat
2:22 am DruPagliassotti: @Shannon_Shea Yeah, I’m not a Meiji-period scholar, so I keep stopping and worrying that I’m being inaccurate! #steampunkchat
2:22 am RjurikDavidson: @jhameia There are those who say that all political theory descends from theology #steampunkchat
2:22 am MadeleineRosca: @fourchickens That’s a great point. Miyazaki does that a lot. #steampunkchat
2:22 am jhameia: @fourchickens Not all his films. #steampunkchat
2:22 am fourchickens: @LadonnaWatkins I don’t think it has to be there. Just many folks put it there for a foil. #steampunkchat
2:23 am erinlausten: With invention being a huge part of SP, I can see a large focus on Man as creator #steampunkchat
2:23 am DruPagliassotti: @tribal_gothic Agreed; alchemy could explain much SP tech. Have you read “Glass Books of the Dream Eaters”? #steampunkchat
2:23 am DavidRozansky: .@LivingAnRPGLife Saw you in #steampunkchat, decided to follow, so…hi!
2:23 am jhameia: @RjurikDavidson A ton of things grew out of philosophy and theology. Greek drama grew out of worship rituals. #steampunkchat
2:23 am MadeleineRosca: @erinlausten In a spiritual sense? #steampunkchat
2:24 am writersyndrome: @erinlausten Or how about Newton’s Clockwork Universe theory? #steampunkchat
2:24 am fourchickens: I think it’s fascinating to look at the juxtaposition of religion and tech. Magic vs. Logic argument over and over again. #steampunkchat
2:24 am AndrewMayer: @fourchickens Good point! I think Miyazaki nicely captures the tension between the two…. #steampunkchat
2:24 am fourchickens: @jhameia Yes, true. Many of his films. #steampunkchat
2:24 am jhameia: @fourchickens Religion can be logical. #steampunkchat
2:24 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia And Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic” strongly suggests religion affected Western industrialization. #steampunkchat
2:25 am mattdelman: @fourchickens One of the things that amuses me is that Religion and Logic aren’t natural enemies. #steampunkchat
2:25 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti @tribal_gothic Fabulous books! Wish I could find the Dark Volume. #steampunkchat
2:25 am LadonnaWatkins: @DruPagliassotti I agree. #steampunkchat
2:25 am tribal_gothic: and the Cartesian division… #steampunkchat
2:25 am mattdelman: @jhameia JINX by the way. #steampunkchat
2:25 am AndrewMayer: @jhameia How many homonculi can dance on the head of a pin? #steampunkchat
2:25 am fourchickens: Isn’t alchemy the ultimate of tech plus religion? #steampunkchat
2:25 am regenklang: @writersyndrome definitely. the Babylon Tower and God’s Love stories where religion = science fact are among his best #steampunkchat
2:25 am RjurikDavidson: @jhameia In a similar vein, I’ve been working on post-1917 Soviet SP, where Stalinist marxism takes on semi-religious aspects #steampunkchat
2:26 am jhameia: @mattdelman *hi5s* #steampunkchat
2:26 am fourchickens: @mattdelman Exactly #steampunkchat
2:26 am fourchickens: @AndrewMayer Yes, me too. #steampunkchat
2:26 am DruPagliassotti: A society in which the gods determine one’s station is arguably a static society; determinism is anti-progress. #steampunkchat
2:26 am mattdelman: @DruPagliassotti @jhameia Western morality is largely influenced by the Christian Bible (which to be honest is real surprise) #steampunkchat
2:26 am tribal_gothic: Ha. Well if it is one of those large brass pins… #steampunkchat
2:26 am MadeleineRosca: @RjurikDavidson I would love to read that. #steampunkchat
2:26 am jhameia: @AndrewMayer As many homunculi as can dance on the head of a pin! #steampunkchat
2:26 am Shannon_Shea: RT @mattdelman: Hey everyone, come on over to #steampunkchat going on right now! We’ve got @DruPagliassotti as our special guest!
2:26 am mattdelman: Meant to say it’s NOT a real surprise to see the Christian Bible’s influence in Western society. #steampunkchat
2:26 am srolutola: RT @jhameia: Tonight’s #steampunkchat topic: Steampunk & Religion, with host @mattdelman & special guest @DruPagliassotti of CLOCKWORK HEART, 9EST/6PST!
2:27 am RjurikDavidson: @MadeleineRosca Well, hopefully before too long. Alas, I’ve many deadlines! #steampunkchat
2:27 am jhameia: @RjurikDavidson A bit of a tangent, but when I read Specters of Marx, I was shivering at recognizing my religion in it. =) #steampunkchat
2:27 am erinlausten: @MadeleineRosca absolutely, The man as creator conflicts with a God creator questions like that have been around forever #steampunkchat
2:27 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DavidRozansky Hi back! Interesting discussion going on… Jump in! #steampunkchat
2:27 am writersyndrome: @regenklang I’m reminded of another Ted Chiang story (dang)– have you read “The Tower of Babylon”? #steampunkchat
2:28 am DruPagliassotti: @erinlausten @MadeleineRosca So if humans are made in the gods’ image, they, too, should be creators by nature….(?) #steampunkchat
2:28 am tribal_gothic: or the influence of Horus (predated concept) on Western society. #steampunkchat
2:28 am MadeleineRosca: This has made me realise how much I gotta get around to picking up Ted Chiang. #steampunkchat
2:28 am AndrewMayer: The growing conflict between religion and science is something that sets the Steampunk genre apart from Medieval fantasy. #steampunkchat
2:28 am writersyndrome: @erinlausten @MadeleineRosca man vs creator = Frankenstein #steampunkchat
2:29 am mattdelman: Be right back all. #steampunkchat
2:29 am Shannon_Shea: @DruPagliassotti Though of of the spirits in japanese mythology the tsukumogami are a very appropriate choice for steampunk #steampunkchat
2:29 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti Yes, alchemy is perfect for sp tech plus religion #steampunkchat
2:29 am LivingAnRPGLife: What if religion is the meeting of the whole mind? right and left? Would that be the alchemical in SP? #steampunkchat
2:29 am tribal_gothic: RT @AndrewMayer: The growing conflict between religion and science is something that sets the Steampunk genre apart from Medieval fantasy. #steampunkchat
2:29 am jhameia: @MadeleineRosca I too would like to pick up Ted Chiang in more than one way. #steampunkchat
2:29 am satanic_plastic: RT @AndrewMayer: The growing conflict between religion and science is something that sets the Steampunk genre apart from Medieval fantasy. #steampunkchat
2:29 am DruPagliassotti: In my story “Galvanics” over at Beneath Ceaseless Skies, industry has literally found a way to siphon off lower-class souls #steampunkchat
2:29 am mattdelman: @writersyndrome @erinlausten @MadeleineRosca Frankenstein is closer to man vs. himself than anything. #steampunkchat
2:30 am MadeleineRosca: @jhameia Ahaha yikes. #steampunkchat
2:30 am DruPagliassotti: @Shannon_Shea I was inspired by seeing a bunraku play in Japan. But I think I may need to find a Japanese co-author! #steampunkchat
2:30 am regenklang: @writersyndrome hah! I have been whoring out Your Story and Others to everyone I know for ages. even used it for classes! #steampunkchat
2:30 am erinlausten: @DruPagliassotti Determinism was a heavy concept for the Greeks interesting the influence Greek philosophy has on SP #steampunkchat
2:30 am MadeleineRosca: @mattdelman Parent versus child, in a perverted sense? #steampunkchat
2:31 am MadeleineRosca: @DruPagliassotti Where can I get that story? #steampunkchat
2:31 am suzannelazear: one man’s science is another man’s religion, which I think can lend itself well to #steampunk worldbuilding #steampunkchat
2:31 am LivingAnRPGLife: @erinlausten and @MadeleineRosca God made man, man made bridges therefore God made bridges… my dad’s theology 🙂 #steampunkchat
2:31 am DruPagliassotti: @satanic_plastic @AndrewMayer Altho the conflict is primarily with Christianity; some religions seem compatible with SP #steampunkchat
2:31 am writersyndrome: @mattdelman @erinlausten @MadeleineRosca But whether Man has that right to play God too RE: Frankenstein #steampunkchat
2:31 am DruPagliassotti: @MadeleineRosca http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.com/story.php?s=64 #steampunkchat
2:32 am tribal_gothic: RT @writersyndrome: “man vs creator = Frankenstein” Ah, but that was a failed attempt – Human Condition. What about SP/AI #steampunkchat
2:32 am fourchickens: Frankenstein isn’t the Golem. He is more. And more awful. Golem=clay and magic. Frankenstein=arrogant science. #steampunkchat
2:32 am MadeleineRosca: @DruPagliassotti Much obliged. #steampunkchat
2:32 am DruPagliassotti: I’m finding it interesting that we’re using “man” for “humanity” — a little Victorianesque gender assumption sneaking in? #steampunkchat
2:33 am tribal_gothic: Plus, you would have to completely define this idea some call “God” #steampunkchat
2:33 am writersyndrome: @fourchickens Agreed. #steampunkchat
2:33 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti Anything would be in conflict with a religion featuring a monotheistic controlling deity, I think. #steampunkchat
2:33 am erinlausten: @fourchickens Frankenstein=arrogant science, they call it the enlightenment, but it also brought strong human arrogance #steampunkchat
2:33 am mattdelman: @DruPagliassotti @satanic_plastic @AndrewMayer I wouldn’t say Christianity was incompatible with SP. Look at @Jay_Lake‘s work #steampunkchat
2:33 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens Right; the story was very much a “challenging God as creator” parable. #steampunkchat
2:33 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti LoL. Thx for pointing that out. Person vs. the Divine then #steampunkchat
2:34 am DavidRozansky: @DruPagliassotti I would say “Man” for “Humanity” is the Victorian’s version of “ppl” to get their own character count down. #steampunkchat
2:34 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti Which is why I found the Lady in CH so compelling; a creator whose identity isn’t predicated on control. #steampunkchat
2:35 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti Exactly. #steampunkchat
2:35 am DruPagliassotti: @mattdelman Right; if working hard/material rewards = signs of God’s grace, then invention = sanctity. #steampunkchat
2:35 am fourchickens: @erinlausten Yes, true. #steampunkchat
2:35 am jolantru: #steampunkchat Machine gods? The mechanical acolyte?
2:35 am mattdelman: RT @DruPagliassotti: @mattdelman Right; if working hard/material rewards = signs of God’s grace, then invention = sanctity. #steampunkchat
2:35 am AndrewMayer: @jhameia @DruPagliassotti Any society based on theological power is going to be rocked when technology reaches the masses. #steampunkchat
2:36 am DruPagliassotti: @DavidRozansky 😉 Just wanted to point it out ’cause of previous questions about SP, gender, and creator-deities! #steampunkchat
2:36 am AndrewMayer: @mattdelman I think it’s in conflict if you’re going historical. Not so much if it’s an alternate world. #steampunkchat
2:37 am suzannelazear: @DruPagliassotti I think so! I can’t think of a gender-neutral version of “humanity” off the top of my head, though. #steampunkchat
2:37 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti huMAN shows we are still nurtured from the Victorian tree. Hence the return to SP #steampunkchat
2:37 am jhameia: @mattdelman I’d think that’s a case of religion with the aesthetic, specifically. #steampunkchat
2:37 am AirshipEmbassy: @AndrewMayer @jhameia @DruPagliassotti available technology provides options and choices for the masses #steampunkchat
2:37 am tribal_gothic: and I really like the alternate world ideas… #steampunkchat
2:38 am jhameia: @suzannelazear “ppl”, as @DavidRozansky helpfully pointed out to us. #steampunkchat
2:38 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti I think it’s good to analyze the use of “man” for “people”#steampunkchat
2:39 am DruPagliassotti: Steampunk’s emphasis on creation seems to challenge gods’ power of creation; thus the tension many perceive between the two. #steampunkchat
2:39 am fourchickens: @tribal_gothic I love alternate world narratives. #steampunkchat
2:39 am tribal_gothic: RT @fourchickens: I think it’s good to analyze the use of “man” for “people” (How about “Semi-Advanced Monkey things”) #steampunkchat
2:40 am RjurikDavidson: @DruPagliassotti Yet, a creationist view might see “invention” etc as a manifestation of the Creator #steampunkchat
2:40 am fourchickens: So, religion vs technology get confusing. Does it morph into magic vs. science? Or religion vs. magic? Interesting. #steampunkchat
2:40 am fourchickens: @tribal_gothic LOL! #steampunkchat
2:41 am SyferLocke: I always miss #steampunkchat cuz it never happens when I have access to a real computer. Phone is fine for twitter, but it lacks chat.
2:41 am ShannonYun: @tribal_gothic @fourchickens I’m all for the Monkey-Things 🙂 #steampunkchat
2:41 am erinlausten: @fourchickens so is magic the piece between religion and technology? The piece we don’t quite understand? #steampunkchat
2:42 am tribal_gothic: @fourchickens Well, in a way, the Blacksmith was the first Alchemist – and is a precursor to SP #steampunkchat
2:42 am suzannelazear: @jhameia But I don’t think it works in all cases. What about when working in a world with “humanity” & a non-human “people”? #steampunkchat
2:42 am DruPagliassotti: @RjurikDavidson Right, in which case there’s no tension; I think that’d be a nice concept to work with in a SP story. #steampunkchat
2:43 am DruPagliassotti: @tribal_gothic Like the Roman god Vulcan/Hephaestus, the inventor-god #steampunkchat
2:43 am fourchickens: Every SP thing I’ve encountered doesn’t seem to be set in super-religious world. More a “natural magic” vs. technology world? #steampunkchat
2:43 am RjurikDavidson: @DruPagliassotti Agreed. Could imagine two characters standing on either side of the debate. #steampunkchat
2:43 am fourchickens: @erinlausten I’m thinking that yes, that is the issue. #steampunkchat
2:44 am suzannelazear: @DruPagliassotti vengeful gods seeking revenge on a people who create too much? #steampunkchat
2:44 am jhameia: @suzannelazear …. just because some folks are non-human doesn’t mean they’re not people…? #steampunkchat
2:44 am tribal_gothic: @DruPagliassotti Yes, exactly (Vulcan/Hephaestus). #steampunkchat
2:44 am jhameia: @erinlausten @fourchickens I think that’s an interesting way of seeing it…! #steampunkchat
2:44 am fourchickens: @tribal_gothic Yes, true. #steampunkchat
2:44 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens BTW, I deliberately didn’t use magic in CH (altho I have in other SP works), which drove the marketers nuts. #steampunkchat
2:45 am RjurikDavidson: @suzannelazear vengeful gods taking revenge on people who create too little, or in the wrong direction, or the wrong things? #steampunkchat
2:45 am DruPagliassotti: @suzannelazear Very Tower of Babel! #steampunkchat
2:45 am AndrewMayer: @erinlausten Magic is the embodiment of symbology?imagination and symbology made “real” #steampunkchat
2:45 am MadeleineRosca: You could make a good steampunk Tower of Babel. #steampunkchat
2:46 am suzannelazear: @jhameia I mean as a way to differentiate the two groups, usually I use “humans” and “people” #steampunkchat
2:46 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti I can imagine. We have kind of gone into major magic land with SP…#steampunkchat
2:46 am suzannelazear: @jhameia no, that’s not what I mean at all. #steampunkchat
2:46 am AndrewMayer: But once you’re in a world with actual magic, I think the “argument” is mostly moot. #steampunkchat
2:47 am tribal_gothic: @AndrewMayer Quantum into Material (Scientific) / Yesod into Malkuth (Mystical) – (imagination and symbology made “real”) #steampunkchat
2:47 am fourchickens: Lately, all the books I’m reading labeled SP are mainly magic and zombies. What gives? #steampunkchat
2:47 am jhameia: @suzannelazear Ohh. I was kinda referring to the context of the chat, where ppl works just fine! XD #steampunkchat
2:48 am DavidRozansky: Gotta sign off early. G’night to #steampunkchat ppl. David Rozansky, Publisher, Flying Pen Press http://flyingpenpress.com
2:48 am karinlow: Science and religion/spirituality aren’t mutually exclusive. “Progress” and belief…that’s another story. #steampunkchat
2:48 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens Easy to market. Agents love that. “Pure” SP is hard; is it historical? sci-fi? drives ‘em crazy. #steampunkchat
2:48 am suzannelazear: @RjurikDavidson I could see that making a great steampunk story #steampunkchat
2:48 am MadeleineRosca: @fourchickens Zombies are so hot right now! #steampunkchat
2:48 am jhameia: RT @karinlow: Science and religion/spirituality arent mutually exclusive. “Progress” and belief…thats another story. #steampunkchat
2:48 am jolantru: @jhameia @suzannelazear Exactly. What defines humanity or sentience? #steampunkchat
2:48 am tribal_gothic: @fourchickens Ah, well Zombies are the hot thing and they just toss them into anything now. #steampunkchat
2:49 am DruPagliassotti: @karinlow I could imagine a fantasy theology in which the gods *encourage* humans to progress to their level of achievement. #steampunkchat
2:49 am tribal_gothic: RT @karinlow: Science and religion/spirituality aren’t mutually exclusive. “Progress” and belief…that’s another story. #steampunkchat
2:49 am satanic_plastic: RT @karinlow: Science and religion/spirituality aren’t mutually exclusive. “Progress” and belief…that’s another story. #steampunkchat
2:49 am AndrewMayer: I’ve got to duck out early as well. So happy to be back in the chat! Thanks everyone! #steampunkchat
2:49 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @fourchickens Tell me about that! Publishers are running around putting sp on everything too #steampunkchat
2:49 am tribal_gothic: @AndrewMayer Glad you attended ! #steampunkchat
2:50 am DruPagliassotti: Zombies work well as a -punk metaphor for any mind-deadening concept you want to demonize; religion, tech, whatever. #steampunkchat
2:50 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti Don’t get me wrong, I love magic! But I think SP is losing it’s way a bit with the zombie, etc., stuff. #steampunkchat
2:50 am DruPagliassotti: @AndrewMayer Nice to e-meet you! #steampunkchat
2:50 am suzannelazear: @jhameia right, but I was wondering about other terms because I usually work with “humanity” and “ppl” in the same world #steampunkchat
2:51 am MadeleineRosca: @DruPagliassotti Great point about zombies. #steampunkchat
2:51 am LivingAnRPGLife: @fourchickens Isn’t natural magic the extreme on the religious end? #steampunkchat
2:51 am writersyndrome: @fourchickens @DruPagliassotti When it comes to what goes into SP lit now, I’m seeing more & more fantasy elements in general #steampunkchat
2:51 am jhameia: @suzannelazear That might have to be a whole ‘nother chat unto itself. Linguistics is an interesting thing! #steampunkchat
2:51 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens S’okay, I wrote a controversial post on that: http://drupagliassotti.com/2009/03/02/gaslamp-or-steampunk/ #steampunkchat
2:51 am fourchickens: @LivingAnRPGLife Well, I think that’s the issue. Is magic the Ultimate Religion? Or the Anti-Religion? #steampunkchat
2:52 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti Ah, good point. #steampunkchat
2:52 am AndrewMayer: And a quick plug: I’ll be on a panel with Jay Lake at the Rose City SP film festival on Sunday! http://bit.ly/gTQS1g #steampunkchat Bye!
2:52 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens Much classic ceremonial magic is predicated on Christian & kabbalistic belief. #steampunkchat
2:52 am SyferLocke: @DruPagliassotti why not? Once upon a time they used dragons to do the same thing #steampunkchat
2:52 am AirshipEmbassy: @writersyndrome @fourchickens @DruPagliassotti I wonder if SP will follow the path of scifi – hard and soft stories #steampunkchat
2:52 am fourchickens: @writersyndrome I know! Ppl keep asking me to recommend the “ultimate” SP book. Hard to do. #steampunkchat
2:53 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti @karinlow Like Stargate? The Asgard aliens have these “tests” for humans they protect. #steampunkchat
2:53 am mizhalle: @fourchickens re: magic I tend to see it in the same vein as religion– much of it is centered in belief #steampunkchat
2:53 am DruPagliassotti: @fourchickens (and in my new novel “An Agreement with Hell,” I have a Christian magickian.) #steampunkchat
2:53 am suzannelazear: @jhameia “mortal” works instead of “human,” especially when working with Faeries, but I can’t think of much else #steampunkchat
2:53 am AirshipEmbassy: @writersyndrome Hard sci fi, with actual science, Hard SP with more tech aspects? Softer stories have more fantasy? #steampunkchat
2:53 am writersyndrome: @LivingAnRPGLife @fourchickens I don’t think natural magic = extreme religion, just because I think of religion as a system #steampunkchat
2:53 am karinlow: @DruPagliassotti I think humans’d be surprised how much any realistic concept of god would encourage ppl to progress. But… #steampunkchat
2:53 am erinlausten: @fourchickens @LivingAnRPGLife It depends magic may be anti- to a western christian based religion, but goes with other types #steampunkchat
2:53 am RjurikDavidson: @LivingAnRPGLife There’s no reason why “magic” can’t be scientifically founded in a SP world – different laws of physics etc #steampunkchat
2:54 am fourchickens: @MizHalle That’s the rub, though. Is magic the Ultimate Religion? Or the Ultimate Science? #steampunkchat
2:54 am jolantru: @AirshipEmbassy @writersyndrome @fourchickens @drupagliassotti I think it’s already happening. #steampunkchat
2:54 am DruPagliassotti: @AirshipEmbassy @writersyndrome “Hard” usually = tech, but “soft” can equal “human”; emotions, relationships, conflict…. #steampunkchat
2:54 am karinlow: @DruPagliassotti …humans don’t tend to see it that way. Knowledge=arrogance sometimes & assuming u know everything. #steampunkchat
2:54 am ShannonYun: For all. Besides this chat being posted at SWAG, is there a way to scroll through any old chats on TweetChat? #steampunkchat
2:54 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti Love. It. #steampunkchat
2:54 am karinlow: @jhameia @DruPagliassotti Not familiar with Stargate, sorry! #steampunkchat
2:55 am fourchickens: @AirshipEmbassy I think it’s already happening. #steampunkchat
2:55 am jhameia: @suzannelazear It depends on the universe. #steampunkchat
2:55 am DruPagliassotti: @erinlausten @fourchickens @LivingAnRPGLife I agree; we shouldn’t assume religion = Christianity! #steampunkchat
2:55 am suzannelazear: @jolantru I usually use “Humanity” when working with humans since I usually work with “humans” and “others” @jhameia #steampunkchat
2:55 am writersyndrome: @fourchickens @MizHalle Religion & Science both address Answers to Big Things. Magic is just a method. #steampunkchat
2:55 am AirshipEmbassy: @RjurikDavidson @LivingAnRPGLife scientifically found magic, like in MK Hobson’s Native Star #steampunkchat
2:55 am jhameia: @karinlow It’s problematic, but the incorporation of various mythologies with space aliens is pretty interesting! #steampunkchat
2:55 am mizhalle: @fourchickens I personally don’t think it fits into either box! Magic is a lot like science to me, but one based on belief #steampunkchat
2:56 am writersyndrome: @fourchickens @MizHalle But that method can be quantitative (science) or faith-based (religion) #steampunkchat
2:56 am fourchickens: @jolantru Agreed. #steampunkchat
2:56 am DruPagliassotti: @mizhalle You start getting into quantum physics and chaos theory, and it might as well be magic! #steampunkchat
2:56 am fourchickens: @RjurikDavidson Exactly my point. #steampunkchat
2:57 am mizhalle: Agreed; different methods! RT @writersyndrome: Religion & Science both address Answers to Big Things. Magic is just a method. #steampunkchat
2:57 am fourchickens: @mizhalle Yes, true. But for some, magic doesn’t count on belief. It just is. #steampunkchat
2:57 am writersyndrome: @jhameia @karinlow Read Tobias Buckell’s Crystal Rain if you’re looking for aliens & religion (and steampunk!) #steampunkchat
2:57 am suzannelazear: @fourchickens I think magic or science is in the eyes of the beholder in the world you created #steampunkchat
2:58 am RjurikDavidson: Have to check out now – thanks for the SP stimulation! #steampunkchat
2:58 am tribal_gothic: “Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.” ~AC (very much quantum physics as well) #steampunkchat
2:58 am erinlausten: @mizhalle @fourchickens I think both science and magic are based on belief and have laws excepted by the practitioners, #steampunkchat
2:58 am LivingAnRPGLife: @MizHalle for some magic IS science. Science is just a practice… #steampunkchat
2:58 am fourchickens: @DruPagliassotti YES! Exactly! #steampunkchat
2:58 am satanic_plastic: RT @tribal_gothic: “Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.” ~AC (very much quantum physics as well) #steampunkchat
2:58 am fourchickens: RT @LivingAnRPGLife: @MizHalle for some magic IS science. Science is just a practice… #steampunkchat
2:58 am karinlow: @jhameia We’d be space aliens to 2000BC civilization so I think to some extent it’s a relative concept: mythology & science. #steampunkchat
2:58 am MadeleineRosca: @RjurikDavidson Nice meeting you! #steampunkchat
2:58 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome What’s fun is when religion goes quant — # of angels on a head of a pin, date of Creation, etc. #steampunkchat
2:58 am jhameia: When incorporating religion into a steampunk setting, it’s important to consider what the religion’s role is in your setting. #steampunkchat
2:58 am fourchickens: @erinlausten Yes, I think that is exactly the issue. #steampunkchat
2:58 am jolantru: @suzannelazear @jhameia How about Sentients? #steampunkchat
2:59 am erinlausten: @erinlausten @mizhalle @fourchickens Accepted, not excepted #steampunkchat
2:59 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Right. Do steampunk characters work within a religious framework or rebel against it; and why. #steampunkchat
2:59 am karinlow: @writersyndrome @jhameia I kno his work! 🙂 I’m dealing w/ the ? of spirituality & progress in GD so this has been on my mind #steampunkchat
3:00 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti Indeed. Or measuring the distance b/w heaven & earth (Dang, Ted Chiang in my head again!) #steampunkchat
3:00 am jolantru: #steampunkchat Magic is a language. So is science. Diff. ways of negotiating the world.
3:00 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia To completely ignore religion would often be to ignore the “ground rules” for politics, economy, crime, etc. #steampunkchat
3:02 am mizhalle: You could say the same thing about religion for some! RT @fourchickens: for some, magic doesn’t count on belief. It just is. #steampunkchat
3:02 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti and culture, aesthetics, and philosophical evolution. #steampunkchat
3:02 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @jhameia example of SP characters who rebel: the protags of “The Masters” by Ursula K. LeGuin #steampunkchat
3:02 am tribal_gothic: Great Chat, but must run off for tonight… #steampunkchat
3:03 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia So I think grappling with religion is important to steampunk, even if it’s not central to any given work. #steampunkchat
3:04 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti What about SP characters within religion? The old monasteries were the havens for mechanics… #steampunkchat
3:04 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @jhameia But I’m also relating that in ref to “The Hidden Sky” the musical based on story, which is more sp #steampunkchat
3:05 am suzannelazear: @jolantru sentients. That’s harder for me to define. do we go with intelligence or presence of culture or both @jhameia #steampunkchat
3:05 am DruPagliassotti: @LivingAnRPGLife Yes; in a medvl/Ren Sp setting, it was the kings & the churches that paid for art, inventions, and the like. #steampunkchat
3:06 am suzannelazear: @jolantru then how do we define culture or intelligence? I think it depends on your world @jhameia #steampunkchat
3:07 am mizhalle: @suzannelazear Self-awareness, perhaps? @jolantru @jhameia #steampunkchat
3:08 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome In which religion is anti-tech; a plausibly reasonable standpoint if tech destroyed your world…! #steampunkchat
3:08 am CountessaLenora: Visit with family finally done, what did I miss so far? #steampunkchat
3:08 am erinlausten: @suzannelazear @jolantru @jhameia That is the wonderful thing about SP. You get to decide and explore the concepts you want #steampunkchat
3:08 am mizhalle: RT @LivingAnRPGLife: @MizHalle for some magic IS science. Science is just a practice… #steampunkchat
3:09 am jhameia: @mizhalle @suzannelazear @jolantru Ladies, focus on the topic =) #steampunkchat
3:09 am suzannelazear: @MizHalle yes, I think self-awareness is a good one @jolantru @jhameia #steampunkchat
3:09 am DruPagliassotti: @erinlausten Exactly; steampunk is inspired by that historical moment in which the world seemed so rich with possibility…. #steampunkchat
3:09 am LivingAnRPGLife: and if science IS the religion….#steampunkchat
3:10 am mizhalle: @jhameia Yes ma’am! #steampunkchat
3:10 am CountessaLenora: Are we talking worldwide religions or fictional? #steampunkchat
3:11 am CountessaLenora: …or a combination of both in a steampunk setting. #steampunkchat
3:11 am DruPagliassotti: @CountessaLenora We’re hopping over the place like a live wire; addressing both real and fictional religions & steampunk #steampunkchat
3:11 am jhameia: @CountessaLenora Worldwide in relation to steampunk, or fictional. =) #steampunkchat
3:11 am suzannelazear: @jhameia sorry. I’ll try to keep on topic. #steampunkchat
3:12 am CountessaLenora: That leaves the doors wide open then as there are hundreds, nay thousands of religions to use in a fictional work. #steampunkchat
3:13 am jolantru: Enjoyed #steampunkchat. Now radio silence while I go for medical appt. Normal is relative.
3:13 am DruPagliassotti: @CountessaLenora Much of the debate has centered around Christianity vs. industry, but I agree that’s a limited focus. #steampunkchat
3:14 am mizhalle: @jolantru *hugs* good luck and good day! #steampunkchat
3:14 am erinlausten: Since Steampunk is actually a modern creation, the attitudes toward religion seem to reflect ours rather than what was #steampunkchat
3:14 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti Very limited indeed. Especially if you want to write any steampunk story not in a Christian country. #steampunkchat
3:14 am jhameia: so, folks, what non-Christian religions are you familiar with? #steampunkchat
3:14 am DruPagliassotti: Maybe one question would be why so many religions seem to ignore technology; is it irrelevant to the Big Questions? #steampunkchat
3:15 am CountessaLenora: Paganism, Hindu, Voudun, quite a few actually. #steampunkchat
3:16 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Passing familiarity with Wicca, Hinduism, Buddhism (arguably not a religion), a little Shinto. #steampunkchat
3:16 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti Separation of state and church. But much more interesting to blend the two. #steampunkchat
3:16 am mizhalle: @jhameia I don’t even know what to call the religion I grew up with. It’s not really Taoism, not really Buddhism. #steampunkchat
3:17 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti @jhameia Buddhism is more of a practice. That would be interesting to blend with a mechanical background. #steampunkchat
3:17 am mizhalle: @jhameia Chinese folk religion? Chinese paganism? We worship ancestors and a variety of gods. #steampunkchat
3:18 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti I don’t think religion ignored tech necessarily; its institutions used it at least. i.e. printing press #steampunkchat
3:18 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti Could be they are dealing with tech from another perspective #steampunkchat
3:18 am suzannelazear: Quite a few here as well — druidism, some of the old Celtic belief systems, Judaism, paganism, wicca, to name a few #steampunkchat
3:18 am AirshipEmbassy: @fourchickens says goodnight, she’s been told she was tweeting too much! lol. #steampunkchat
3:19 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti But the Big Questions were seen as non-secular, though, and most tech was used secularly #steampunkchat
3:19 am CountessaLenora: I’d love to see someone do a story with mechanical automaton controlled by little old… #steampunkchat
3:19 am mizhalle: I think that polytheistic religions have an easier time accepting tech & machines than ones in which there is One Creator #steampunkchat
3:19 am CountessaLenora: …Stregas to protect their village against the evil monarchy or state trying to impose their will. #steampunkchat
3:19 am suzannelazear: I use a lot of mythology in my stories (mainly Celtic)–even the steampunk ones #steampunkchat
3:19 am antigone_egan: Will try to stop by for a few for #steampunkchat
3:20 am jhameia: @mizhalle I call it the chinese folk religion too. I think it’d be quite compatible with the SP aesthetic. #steampunkchat
3:20 am erinlausten: @writersyndrome @DruPagliassotti it is important to see when they were established, they did use the technology of the time #steampunkchat
3:20 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome But many don’t; maybe because tech is inherently materialistic while religion focuses on the spiritual? #steampunkchat
3:20 am mizhalle: As they are already key in to the idea of creative energies coming from many different sources (as opposed to a single being) #steampunkchat
3:20 am erinlausten: @erinlausten @writersyndrome @DruPagliassotti They being religion #steampunkchat
3:21 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti tech & religion aren’t always separated; a lot of Vietanmese legends see tech as divinely-made #steampunkchat
3:21 am CountessaLenora: Japanese Anime Full Metal Alchemist has a brother’s soul stuck in a metal suit. #steampunkchat
3:21 am erinlausten: I think many religions have difficulty embracing new technology, it often doesn’t fit into the dogma #steampunkchat
3:21 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome I would love to read a Vietnamese-set steampunk story. #steampunkchat
3:21 am mizhalle: RT @writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti tech & religion aren’t always separated; a lot of Vietanmese legends see tech as divinely-made #steampunkchat
3:22 am DruPagliassotti: @erinlausten I’d also love to read an Amish steampunk story! #steampunkchat
3:22 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @writersyndrome I’m working on one right now actually 😀 It’s actually a retelling of a famous Viet legend #steampunkchat
3:22 am mizhalle: @DruPagliassotti In the polytheistic religions there’s not always a clear line between the spiritual & the material world #steampunkchat
3:22 am CountessaLenora: There is shakespeare being “steampunked” what about folk stories and myths? #steampunkchat
3:23 am erinlausten: @DruPagliassotti @erinlausten Amish Steampunk. Wow, the ideas are flying! #steampunkchat
3:23 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome Awesome. Let me know when it’s published (or if you want a beta reader!) #steampunkchat
3:23 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti Aren’t the Amish SP in their own way?! ^_~ #steampunkchat
3:23 am mizhalle: @DruPagliassotti For example in Japanese animism objects too can acquire spirits after a certain age #steampunkchat
3:23 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti could also be that they are looking for another technology? And we’re not there yet… #steampunkchat
3:23 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti @erinlausten Amish you say…that would be really interesting. #steampunkchat
3:23 am suzannelazear: @DruPagliassotti I think Amish Steampunk would be very fun to explore @erinlausten #steampunkchat
3:23 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti Thanks! I’ll let you know how it goes. #steampunkchat
3:23 am DruPagliassotti: @CountessaLenora I was saying earlier that I’m struggling with a steampunk story about bunraku puppets & tsukumogami… #steampunkchat
3:24 am ShannonYun: @DruPagliassotti @erinlausten That’s a very interesting premise…Amish Steampunk #steampunkchat
3:24 am jhameia: @mizhalle Now I want to write a story of a robot powered by joss sticks. #steampunkchat
3:24 am mizhalle: @DruPagliassotti There are umbrella monsters, screen door monsters… #steampunkchat
3:24 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti puppets – clockwork dolls – very plausible for a story. #steampunkchat
3:24 am suzannelazear: @CountessaLenora I have some of that going on in my YA, steampunk Celtic faerie lore #steampunkchat
3:25 am mizhalle: @jhameia you build a paper robot and you burn it, and it turns into a real robot in the underworld #steampunkchat
3:25 am hulabaloola: RT @mizhalle: I think that polytheistic religions have an easier time accepting tech & machines than ones in which there is One Creator #steampunkchat
3:25 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti there is one of Amish tech but it;s not steam… #steampunkchat
3:25 am CountessaLenora: @jhameia @mizhalle Joss sticks? #steampunkchat
3:25 am jhameia: @mizhalle YES. #steampunkchat
3:25 am jhameia: @CountessaLenora local slang for incense =) #steampunkchat
3:25 am mizhalle: @jhameia writing a SP story set in the Chinese concept of hell might be… interesting. #steampunkchat
3:25 am CountessaLenora: @jhameia @mizhalle Sorry, what are Joss sticks? #steampunkchat
3:26 am DruPagliassotti: @mizhalle Well, if you ever want to co-author, this story keeps kicking my butt! #steampunkchat
3:26 am DruPagliassotti: @LivingAnRPGLife What story is that? #steampunkchat
3:26 am jhameia: @mizhalle Steampunk war in the underworld! #steampunkchat
3:26 am CountessaLenora: Oops you answered, thanks. How would you have them controlled by incense sticks? That’s fascinating. #steampunkchat
3:26 am suzannelazear: @ShannonYun @DruPagliassotti @erinlausten I know of at least two people writing Amish steapunk right now… #steampunkchat
3:26 am DruPagliassotti: @mizhalle @jhameia Chinese-hell steampunk would be awesome. Write it! Please! #steampunkchat
3:26 am ShannonYun: @CountessaLenora Joss sticks are incense #steampunkchat
3:27 am _soliloqueer: RT @mizhalle: I think that polytheistic religions have an easier time accepting tech & machines than ones in which there is One Creator #steampunkchat
3:27 am mizhalle: @jhameia yes! And the living descendants of the factions have to send them the tech they need! #steampunkchat
3:27 am CountessaLenora: Definitely! RT @DruPagliassotti: @mizhalle @jhameia Chinese-hell steampunk would be awesome. Write it! Please! #steampunkchat
3:27 am writersyndrome: @mizhalle Agreed! Esp. because poly rel. accepts how spiritual forces can be controlled from diff. but =ly powerful sources #steampunkchat
3:27 am jhameia: @CountessaLenora Incense sticks are to appease the spirits. Maybe not power them; but kickstart by infusing spiritual energy #steampunkchat
3:27 am SteamScholar: Wow. The chat’s flying tonight. Read some of what’s gone on. Looks fascinating! #steampunkchat
3:27 am jhameia: @mizhalle We always could use more reasons for our ancestor to haunt us. #steampunkchat
3:28 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @mizhalle @jhameia Bureaucracy is hell …and made more efficient by a tech-enhanced society! XD #steampunkchat
3:28 am CountessaLenora: @jhameia Like mana in a game. I like it. #steampunkchat
3:28 am LivingAnRPGLife: @DruPagliassotti TheSllk code.. a podcast novel #steampunkchat
3:28 am ScottWesterfeld: Hello, all. The joss sticks are making me think of Shiva 300. Wooden steam-powred Indian gods fighting each other. #steampunkchat
3:28 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome @DruPagliassotti @mizhalle @jhameia Have you seen the underworld in Beetlejuice? #steampunkchat
3:29 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome See, that’s perfect; bureaucracy and steampunk make a nice, tense (due to the -punk) mix. #steampunkchat
3:29 am MadeleineRosca: Time for me to go to work! Bye all! #steampunkchat
3:29 am AirshipEmbassy: @jhameia “We always could use more reasons for our ancestor to haunt us” LOL sounds like good religious guilt! #steampunkchat
3:29 am CountessaLenora: @ScottWesterfeld I love that imagery. #steampunkchat
3:29 am DruPagliassotti: @LivingAnRPGLife Thanks; I’ve bookmarked to look at later. #steampunkchat
3:30 am jhameia: @writersyndrome http://ib-archive.livejournal.com/68372.html =) #steampunkchat
3:30 am DruPagliassotti: Talking about the underworld & steampunk makes me think, of course, of the term “infernal machines.” #steampunkchat
3:30 am mizhalle: DNW TBH but what a story idea! RT @jhameia: @mizhalle We always could use more reasons for our ancestor to haunt us. #steampunkchat
3:31 am mizhalle: @CountessaLenora I’m being bitten by plot bunnies! @jhameia #steampunkchat
3:31 am ScottWesterfeld: @CountessaLenora Yeah, Shiva 3000 is where I stole the spice bombs in Behemoth from. #steampunkchat
3:31 am jhameia: @mizhalle You can imagine it, though, right? Hungry Ghost month would be bruuuuutal! #steampunkchat
3:32 am CountessaLenora: @mizhalle @jhameia In Stregonaria ancestors are very important as well. In many religions really. Ancestors in tech…. #steampunkchat
3:32 am SteamScholar: @DruPagliassotti Miltonesque steampunk? Dante’s underworld done with chains and cogs? Reminds me of Scar Night! #steampunkchat
3:32 am CountessaLenora: @ScottWesterfeld That makes a lot of sense. Like it. #steampunkchat
3:32 am writersyndrome: @jhameia @writersyndrome I’ll have to read this later–thanks! #steampunkchat
3:32 am jhameia: @AirshipEmbassy Ancestor worship is pretty awesome like that =) I’ve got something like it in a WIP. #steampunkchat
3:32 am mizhalle: @jhameia When the war spills out into the human lands? hell yess It’d be the Angry Ghost month instead #steampunkchat
3:32 am erinlausten: Time for me to go, I had a wonderful time! Thank you @DruPagliassotti for moderating. #steampunkchat
3:32 am CountessaLenora: @mizhalle @jhameia Excellent! #steampunkchat
3:33 am DruPagliassotti: @erinlausten Bye! Hope to see you again soon! #steampunkchat
3:33 am jhameia: @erinlausten Thank you for joining us! #steampunkchat
3:33 am writersyndrome: @erinlausten Hope to see you around again! #steampunkchat
3:33 am jhameia: @mizhalle Instead of food, we leave out little paper tanks. #steampunkchat
3:34 am suzannelazear: thanks for the great #steampunkchat everyone, time for me to go. Thanks @DruPagliassotti for leading the chat tonight
3:34 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia @mizhalle This story is just sounding better and better…. SP def. needs more non-Western religious imagery. #steampunkchat
3:34 am mizhalle: @erinlausten Bye! Thanks for the conversation! #steampunkchat
3:34 am CountessaLenora: Steampunk war in Hell – Go! #steampunkchat
3:34 am MadeleineRosca: @mizhalle Plot bunnies! Is that what that condition is called now?! #steampunkchat
3:34 am DruPagliassotti: @SteamScholar Or maybe Clive Barker’s Hellraiser movies…. #steampunkchat
3:34 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti Wish I could oblige… my SP WIP works with the principle informing ancestor worship but isn’t exactly it! #steampunkchat
3:35 am ShannonYun: @suzannelazear Night Suzi. Hope you feel better. You insired me to take AirBorne earlier today. #steampunkchat
3:35 am LivingAnRPGLife: got to go back to work y’all. It’s been an absolutely intriguing evening with lots of good ideas #steampunkchat
3:35 am CountessaLenora: @mizhalle It was nice to meet you. #steampunkchat
3:35 am mizhalle: @jhameia and electrical cannons! #steampunkchat
3:35 am ScottWesterfeld: Re: “Infernal machines”: A lot of luddites thought that steam power was devilish. It certainly looked and smelled devilish. #steampunkchat
3:35 am writersyndrome: @CountessaLenora Well, we know there will be enough fire, coal, and brimstone to fuel those engines of war #steampunkchat
3:35 am DruPagliassotti: @LivingAnRPGLife G’nite! #steampunkchat
3:36 am jhameia: RT @ScottWesterfeld: Re: “Infernal machines”: A lot of luddites thought that steam power was devilish. It certainly looked and smelled devilish. #steampunkchat
3:36 am MadeleineRosca: I mentioned Whitechapel Gods before…anyone else read it? It sort of had a crack at this topic. #steampunkchat
3:36 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome Exactly and get you some demon slaves to dig the iron and ore and build the machines…. #steampunkchat
3:37 am writersyndrome: @CountessaLenora Or we could all just reincarnate into post-apocalyptic world.. would that count? XD #steampunkchat
3:37 am CountessaLenora: @ScottWesterfeld That could go so many ways. #steampunkchat
3:37 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome Sure why not, we’re talking fiction here. #steampunkchat
3:38 am curryalley: #steampunkchat is happening…but I’m not sure if chatting while half inebriated is a good idea…
3:38 am DruPagliassotti: @MadeleineRosca Read it a few years ago; I remember it more as a religio/mythos novel than a steampunk novel…. #steampunkchat
3:38 am writersyndrome: @MadeleineRosca Whitechapel Gods is on my (pile of books) reading list #steampunkchat
3:38 am SteamScholar: I like the use of infernal machinery in this steampunked tale from Jewish mythology: http://bit.ly/hQ4UsZ #steampunkchat
3:38 am mizhalle: RT @ScottWesterfeld: Re: “Infernal machines”: A lot of luddites thought that steam power was devilish. It certainly looked and smelled devilish. #steampunkchat
3:39 am castusalbuscor: @jhameia I don’t think that statement is steampunk exclusive. I believe it applies to any setting. #steampunkchat
3:40 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome @MadeleineRosca It’s on my pile as well. Do we all have piles? #steampunkchat
3:40 am SteamScholar: @MadeleineRosca I think Whitechapel Gods definitely plays with religion and steampunk. http://bit.ly/dapHp8 #steampunkchat
3:40 am jhameia: What rituals from any religion strike ya’ll as particularly steampunk-compatible? #steampunkchat
3:41 am DruPagliassotti: (BTW, Google is showing a vaguely steampunkish blueprint logo for me right now….) #steampunkchat
3:41 am writersyndrome: @ScottWesterfeld I also think luddite fear is connected to what was considered natural (spiritual) vs. what’s artificial too #steampunkchat
3:41 am SteamScholar: Gotta put my son to bed – might pop in again. #steampunkchat
3:41 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti Today’s also Thomas Edison’s birthday. How timely #steampunkchat
3:41 am MadeleineRosca: @CountessaLenora @writersyndrome My pile is taking over my work room. #steampunkchat
3:42 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Long shot: Transubstantiation. Host = Jesus’s flesh. Why not Clockwork Body = Jesus’s body? (Ducking Bibles.) #steampunkchat
3:42 am CountessaLenora: @jhameia Japanese ritual of tea, anything involving steam (bath) or fire (cleansing) #steampunkchat
3:42 am MadeleineRosca: @jhameia Lots of things. Taking a sacrament, for example? #steampunkchat
3:42 am SteamScholar: @jhameia Baptism by steam? #steampunkchat
3:43 am jhameia: @MadeleineRosca I don’t know what taking sacrament means, so you’ll have to explain that one to me ^^; #steampunkchat
3:43 am CountessaLenora: @SteamScholar @jhameia Good one! #steampunkchat
3:43 am jhameia: @SteamScholar Ha! From holy coal? #steampunkchat
3:44 am writersyndrome: @SteamScholar @jhameia baptism by steam sounds possibly painful #steampunkchat
3:44 am ShannonYun: If you get a chance, Modern Marvels did a whole episode on steam and the last segment was devoted to Steampunk. #steampunkchat
3:44 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Most animistic practices could sync with steampunk; investing the machine with a spirit. #steampunkchat
3:44 am kalgrl: RT @ScottWesterfeld: Re: “Infernal machines”: A lot of luddites thought that steam power was devilish. It certainly looked and smelled devilish. #steampunkchat
3:45 am SteamScholar: @writersyndrome @jhameia I’m thinking like a combination of sweat tent with boiler room + baptism. #steampunkchat. Not direct steam blast.
3:45 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome @SteamScholar @jhameia That could be the point. #steampunkchat
3:45 am mizhalle: Yes! RT @DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Most animistic practices could sync with steampunk; investing the machine with a spirit. #steampunkchat
3:45 am DruPagliassotti: @jhameia Vodoun: the loa “rides” the machine. #steampunkchat
3:45 am ScottWesterfeld: @writersyndrome Well, steam engines were replacing humans (their labor), which was like building fake people = devilish. #steampunkchat
3:46 am CountessaLenora: @SteamScholar @writersyndrome @jhameia There is a lot of steam in a sweat lodge. #steampunkchat
3:46 am regenklang: @jhameia rites of worshipping at a metal altar = worshipping nascent, opaque technology very well #steampunkchat Games Workshop use this
3:46 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti @jhameia Loa riding a machine would work very well! #steampunkchat
3:46 am mizhalle: @ScottWesterfeld plus, people have a tedency to anthropomorphize machines @writersyndrome #steampunkchat
3:47 am mizhalle: @ScottWesterfeld probably because they seem to have an agency of their own @writersyndrome #steampunkchat
3:47 am DruPagliassotti: I have a spiritualistic SP story in upcoming Mammoth Book of Ghost Romance; spirit inhabits mechanical servant. #steampunkchat
3:48 am curryalley: When it comes to religion, what’s more steampunk than a clockwork universe? #steampunkchat
3:48 am DruPagliassotti: @curryalley Yes; I envy Jay Lake for getting to the idea first! #steampunkchat
3:48 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti Good spirit or bad spirit? #steampunkchat
3:49 am ScottWesterfeld: @MizHalle Right, the machine itself defies natural law, built from inanimate components, but eerily animate. #steampunkchat
3:49 am DruPagliassotti: @CountessaLenora One of each! 🙂 #steampunkchat
3:49 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti @curryalley Or do you mean Jay Lake using Issac Newton’s idea? #steampunkchat
3:50 am DruPagliassotti: @ScottWesterfeld @MizHalle Pulling us back to the golem and Frankenstein stories….! #steampunkchat
3:50 am jolantru: RT @jhameia: What rituals from any religion strike ya’ll as particularly steampunk-compatible? #steampunkchat
3:50 am curryalley: @DruPagliassotti Very interesting. I like the idea of reincarnation/eternal life by placing a soul into a machine. #steampunkchat
3:50 am jhameia: @DruPagliassotti His prayer was very cleverly done, for sure. #steampunkchat
3:50 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti Wonderfully fun! #steampunkchat
3:50 am CountessaLenora: @DruPagliassotti @ScottWesterfeld @MizHalle I was just thinking the same thing. #steampunkchat
3:50 am jhameia: @curryalley Or a machine having a soul to start with. Stephen Hunt’s Court of the Air dabbles with this. #steampunkchat
3:50 am DruPagliassotti: @DruPagliassotti @ScottWesterfeld @MizHalle Yes; no intention of suggesting that the idea originated w/Lake. #steampunkchat
3:51 am SteamScholar: @jhameia @DruPagliassotti Amen. The world building re: religion in Mainspring was great. #steampunkchat
3:52 am writersyndrome: @DruPagliassotti Jay Lake’s book is also in the Pile; it’s grown quite large #steampunkchat
3:52 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome Watch it doesn’t topple. #steampunkchat
3:54 am writersyndrome: @curryalley Speaking of souls & machines, I’m reminded of Ghost in the Machine. Cyberpunk anime, but alludes to same concept #steampunkchat
3:54 am CountessaLenora: @writersyndrome @curryalley There are quite a few of these concepts in Japanese anime. #steampunkchat
3:55 am MadeleineRosca: @writersyndrome I was going to mention the Cyberpunk link with souls in artificial bodies. Way more frequent in Cpunk. #steampunkchat
3:55 am DruPagliassotti: @writersyndrome And relevant to this discussion; ghost = spirit/mind (religion?), machine = body (tech? material world?). #steampunkchat
3:55 am jhameia: Ladies, gentlemen and non-binaries! 5 more minutes before we finish for the night! any last thoughts? #steampunkchat
3:55 am ScottWesterfeld: @jhameia @curryalley There’s also the religious implications of mechanical parts for people, again: Full Metal Alchemist. #steampunkchat
3:56 am mizhalle: @MadeleineRosca yep, it’s because the Japanese belief in inanimate objects gaining spirits is pretty strong #steampunkchat
3:56 am curryalley: @CountessaLenora @writersyndrome Besides the awesome (and very steampunk) Trigun, I’m not very familiar with anime. #steampunkchat
3:56 am MadeleineRosca: @ScottWesterfeld Please tell me you’re a Full Metal Alchemist fan. T_T #steampunkchat
3:57 am castusalbuscor: @jhameia Yes! Pocketwatches FTW #steampunkchat
3:57 am MadeleineRosca: @mizhalle Oh, that’s a good point. Is that found frequently in Shinto? #steampunkchat
3:57 am ScottWesterfeld: I think the retroactive title of tonight’s #steampunkchat might well be “Ghost in the Machine.”
3:58 am CountessaLenora: I hope this discussion inspires some of you to write something in “hell” . Intriguing concept to be played with. #steampunkchat
3:58 am CountessaLenora: @ScottWesterfeld Very nice! #steampunkchat
3:58 am DruPagliassotti: The religion vs. steampunk tension is primarily Christian; broadening steampunk’s cultural settings challenges this cliche. #steampunkchat
3:58 am ScottWesterfeld: @MizHalle “Gaining spirits?” So not animism, where everything has a spirit. But spirit is something an object “earns”? #steampunkchat
3:58 am mizhalle: @MadeleineRosca I think it’s partly religion and partly folk supersition, but I’m no expert in the matter! #steampunkchat
3:59 am ScottWesterfeld: @MadeleineRosca But of course. (Though I’ve only seen the original flavor.) #steampunkchat
3:59 am jhameia: @ScottWesterfeld After a long enough time, yea. #steampunkchat
3:59 am mizhalle: @ScottWesterfeld yeah–there are certain criteria to be met, like age. #steampunkchat
4:00 am jhameia: Woo! And we’ve come to the end of #steampunkchat! Officially, anyway. Keep nattering as long as you like, of course ^^ #steampunkchat
4:00 am CountessaLenora: @ScottWesterfeld @MizHalle Earn better machinery. #steampunkchat
4:01 am jhameia: Thank you @DruPagliassotti for joining us! And folks, you should get her book CLOCKWORK HEART! #steampunkchat
4:01 am MadeleineRosca: @ScottWesterfeld The manga is superior. And more spiritual. #steampunkchat

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